[Chapter_Fourteen] Chapter 14

[ron stanford]

no doubt protocols have been trampled...or maybe not...(jay does seem to
like an open field...& shakespere championed the bastard...)...anyhow, i
keep trying to get away from a strictly economic analysis but it does seem
to keep coming back.  if we don't make assumptions about what people know,
or how much 'power' they might have in any one on one transaction, (e.g.
putative argument for 'regulation/market oversight' of the sex trade...),
there seems to be an interesting question re how a series of productive
'collectives', ((Fukuoka's thought), assuming they themselves have a
functioning private property-profit alternative)), causally Intersect with
people who may not grow food, may not have drunk the kool aid or read the
relevant literature..  markets do allow for the possibility for 'unknowns'
to be priced...Barter can work well for goods and services, (at smaller
scale), but land i think is less easy...how do we 'value' land...

r.

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Rachel A. Buddeberg <rachel at rabe.org> wrote:

> Not quite sure what protocols you might have breeched...  I found your
> question intriguing because I've wondered about that myself.  It seems that
> not everyone might become a successful farmer... Given our knowledge of
> where markets can lead - at least the unregulated kinds - maybe exchange
> might be better.  Historically, when buyer and seller haggled directly,
> prices tended to be fairer than now when most of the money I pay for
> athletic shoes (for example) goes into the pockets of the CEO of [fill in
> your least favorite shoe company].  I can't haggle - and neither can the
> person ask for higher wages.   Of course, there remain other
> power-differentials to watch out for in 1-on-1 markets.  I am sure that the
> craftsperson didn't feel as comfortable setting a price for a
> nobleperson...
>
> Rachel
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, ron stanford wrote:
>
> not quite sure how the idea exchange here is supposed to work, but just
> diving in: (as a relative neophyte), marvelously impressed by the gravity of
> fukuoka, the look of his 'farm', the food forest concept, seed balls, etc.
> My first question v.a.v. discussion would be the macro level implications
> of.traditional property rights and markets/ exchange of 'surplus'.
> Recognizing that permaculture, (seems to me), is something, (literally), of
> a ground up' concept, (the best e.g. acquittal of Foucault i've personally
> encountered...), i wonder about the convergence of enlightened 'ground up'
> food production and the perhaps not so comfortable atrophy of top down-large
> scale production/distribution models.
> In the new model, if one is not specifically a grower, or one in possession
> of land, (maybe a dedicated painter/writer/old school doctor, etc.), is
> there the comfortable possibility of making one's 'specialized' way, without
> being a 'farmer' oneself, (and not relying on charity, strictly
> speaking...), that is, an exchange, a market, where services/goods/produce
> can be priced?
>
> have no doubt breeched any number of protocols, but...testing, testing...is
> this thing on...? ...'--)
>
> ron.
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Jay <protojay at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Website: onestrawrevolution.net
>>
>> Chapter 14 discussion invite
>>
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