[Chapter_Fourteen] Chapter 14

Wed Nov 10 10:10:04 PST 2010

not a masterplan for taking over the world...just the public/community
farm...maybe its a 'masterless' plan... vetted and w/
'evolution'/malleability built in...but synergy-efficacy-accountability tend
to be difficult in any circumstance. Without a sense of measureable goals,
(don't think a more detailed site plan is controversial), mission creep,
meetings on meetings, in-fighting, etc. become even harder to
avoid...(particularly, (hopefully), when there is any money to be
dispensed... (guess this has moved into the 'vision',
'organization-communication' arena..  )

drum circle vs. an orchestra...or maybe a series of string quartets...'--)

r

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:06 PM, margaretha haughwout <
xmargarethax at gmail.com> wrote:

> is permaculture as a movement moving fast enough to reach enough people and
> turn back the devastation of capitalism? no, probably not.
> should we do it anyway? yes, because nothing is for certain.
> time isn't as absolute as it seems, so maybe we can slow it down by
> planting food on a freeway for example.
>
> should we have a master plan beyond taking a PDC or studying some other
> 10000-year old technology and implementing the principles? i vote no. i am
> very tired of masters. and each local circumstance requires it's own
> observation and interaction.
>
> all best,
> /m
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Antonio Roman-Alcala <
> antidogmatist at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> to clarify my last post:
>> i didn't mean to imply that horizontal, rhizomatic, network (pick your
>> metaphor!) structures of organizations are inherently ineffective or faulty,
>> but rather that I am increasingly aware of a tendency on the left, permie,
>> etc circles to idealize these structures as more "correct". obviously there
>> are so many ways to build a garden, and so many ways to create change. our
>> challenge, i believe, is to analytically and critically discern what works
>> for us in our particular conditions.
>>
>> Metaphors from nature as applied social organization are tricky, though
>> they may be useful at times. But personally I try to steer clear from "this
>> is true in nature" therefore "this is how we should organize". Patterns are
>> patterns, and should be observed, not used as a basis for dogma. (i'm not
>> accusing anyone on this thread of that--just pointing out a pattern I've
>> seen, and participated in!)
>>
>> all the best,
>> antonio
>>
>> p.s. i love the "reverse hierarchy" model...this is exactly what modern
>> nation state governments have ass backwards: local communities are beholden
>> to decisions made on successively larger levels, reducing accountability,
>> transparency, and appropriateness to place. double agree with the last
>> margaretha's paragraph about our work's focus:  What I would describe as
>> being broadly concerned with strengthening our communities' nodes, hubs, and
>> links, while somehow not ignoring the equally important dismantling (or
>> making obsolete?) of the current structures/networks of destructive power.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 12:46 AM, margaretha haughwout <
>> xmargarethax at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> dear ron, antonio, rachel and all --
>>>
>>> many interesting threads through the conversation here. ron, thanks so
>>> much for starting the conversation; it seems a vital one to begin at the
>>> launch of this new list -- how effective is permaculture at enacting real
>>> change?
>>>
>>> one thing i always found sort of frustrating with the foucault i've read
>>> is his avoidance of a clear definition of power. he talks about it all the
>>> time but rarely defines it. the most i can get for a definition out of
>>> discipline and punish (the whole book can be found here<http://aaaaarg.org/text/15247/discipline-and-punish-birth-prison>- just register!)  is something along the lines that power is the ability to
>>> exert force. the ability to exert force via a hierarchical king or
>>> hierarchical nation state needs no long explication as to its devastation.
>>> if we were to toss deleuze (hardt and negri too?) into the mix (i know i
>>> know, so predictable), we'd be able to think broadly about the double
>>> death-like nature of fixed, organizations, of solidified power but also to
>>> argue that the only way out of hierarchy + capitalism is a rhizomatic ever
>>> multiplying network, where relations and cross pollinations are made
>>> spontaneously and across species. in permaculture terms i think this would
>>> be adding more, diverse life to problems (integrating rather than
>>> segregating), closing loops, valuing diversity. and yes thanks to rachel for
>>> that keeper of a pdf - finding the leverage points in the system....
>>>
>>> there are many things i agree with in gladwell's article you mention
>>> above, antonio. i have the same criticism of clay shirky (though i wish
>>> gladwell had been more explicit about the implicit racism shirky's social
>>> media story) and of social media. however there are lots of different kind
>>> of networks -- centralized networks (which may or may not be the same as top
>>> down hierarchies), decentralized networks, and distributed networks being 3
>>> main kinds -- and i question whether it is a simply matter of vertical vs.
>>> lateral. for instance, one functioning model for land stewardship for
>>> indigenous tribes in maine (among other places) is a reverse hierarchy,
>>> where the people living closest to the land have ultimate veto power. this
>>> is in effect still a centralized network where leaders of nations petition
>>> tribes who petition clans who petition families who petition women (the
>>> closest to the land) - who then say yea or nay. i think we need a more
>>> coherent analysis of networks. there are strong tie networks and weak tie
>>> networks that can apply to any of the types described above; no doubt the
>>> internet supplies an abundance of weak ties - weak ties only to other humans
>>> with the exception of the occasional lolcat.
>>>
>>> the water wars of bolivia, i think, are a good example of a successful
>>> decentralized resistance.
>>>
>>> i also think it is a matter of who tells the history. we all know that
>>> hierarchies align histories with powerful central figures, while the people,
>>> the connections between people, and between people and place, go
>>> unrecognized.
>>>
>>> no doubt hierarchy combined with capitalism is a positive feedback loop
>>> that seems to eat every opposition and grow from it. but i do think there
>>> are cracks in the system. an economic system based on profit cannot continue
>>> indefinitely. i would also assert that power is in fact afraid of networks.
>>> take the virus, for example; both computer viruses and SARS travel networks
>>> (be it the internet or airlines), and this terrifies. also regardless of
>>> whether al qaeda actually was a decentralized network or a hierarchy, the
>>> narrative sold to the american public is that al qaeda cells are
>>> distributed, can exist independently of each other - therefore scary!
>>>
>>> i think the real challenge is to make our networks thick and full of
>>> trust. thick with people and community as well as plants and animals. if we
>>> are tied to place as closely as we are to our children, lovers or our
>>> friends, we fight for them. so, it is not just a matter of making a backyard
>>> garden, but to make gardens with others in empty lots, toss seed bombs, and
>>> engage the marginal. it is also a matter of closing loops - feed off of the
>>> waste that capitalism outpours, turn it all into nutrient and grow food from
>>> its disaster. is it possible to turn the feedback loop around?  undoubtedly,
>>> power is not going to give up without a fight, and as derrick jensen so
>>> convincingly argues, we need each of us to figure out when, where and how we
>>> draw the line.
>>>
>>> /m
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Rachel A. Buddeberg <rachel at rabe.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> There was an interesting (and somewhat depressing/discouraging)
>>>> interview with Heather Rogers on Against the Grain a few weeks ago who was
>>>> talking exactly about the co-option of alternative ways of being by the
>>>> mainstream capitalist system.  See
>>>> http://www.againstthegrain.org/program/342/id/351519/mon-8-30-10-green-panaceas.
>>>>  BUT as I don't see one thing that would bring the whole system down (well,
>>>> with the except of running out of oil but even that doesn't seem to stop the
>>>> system, at least not yet), I think we just have to keep trying from as many
>>>> angles as we can think of.  Maybe there are leverage points that we hit by
>>>> accident or design that can change things more dramatically (
>>>> http://www.sustainer.org/?page_id=106).  Also, I think it's important
>>>> to show that alternatives are possible because one counter-argument that is
>>>> often hurled at people suggesting alternatives is the "it's not possible"
>>>> mantra.  If we can point to place where it is done that counter-argument
>>>> implodes...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sending the two Foucault pieces, Ron!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 8, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Antonio Roman-Alcala wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A few brief comments:
>>>>
>>>> 1) My entrance into the world of permaculture was surely rooted in just
>>>> this foucault-style description of means of challenging power (though I've
>>>> never read him of course). But as I've spent time doing this work, I am
>>>> extremely skeptical about its ability to fundamentally alter the conditions
>>>> of production (food or otherwise) or address longstanding iniquities, at
>>>> least in any relatively quick timespan (50-100 years). The reasons for this
>>>> are manifold, but one major aspect is that the capitalist system has a
>>>> powerful drive to re-incorporate critique into its functions and
>>>> justifications for its continued existence. (see "The New Spirit of
>>>> Capitalism" by Luc Boltanski and Eve Chiapello). Another critique I'm
>>>> finding more and more persuasive is that the network, horizontal mode of
>>>> organization (while it has incredible value in many respects) is not
>>>> necessary conducive to mass culture change in a society where so many of the
>>>> links in that network are tenuous or weak (see Malcolm Gladwell's
>>>> article<http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/04/101004fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=1>on Twitter: I don't agree with everything he says but its something to
>>>> consider). Effective counter-power may require more resources and
>>>> organization than the network permaculturists/anti-capitalists/etc currently
>>>> manifest. I don't know.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Re: specialization: this is a distinct outgrowth of university system
>>>> expansion in the US in the late 19th, early 20th century. Before that, most
>>>> people were autodidacts and "experts" (or at least dabblers) in all sorts of
>>>> fields of inquiry (both upper class officially "educated" and
>>>> homesteader/farmer alike). I'd really like to see us promoting a vision of a
>>>> new world where we can have both the benefits of specialist knowledge
>>>> production and see a generalization of the population's understanding of the
>>>> world and (the way I fantasize about my own future) even an ability to make
>>>> a living from multiple interests/vocations: farming/gardening/the production
>>>> of basic needs as one aspect that a majority of folks are involved in.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Re: land question. Also, I'm not sure it's "the solution", but it's
>>>> interesting to consider, as a post-capitalist land ownership model to pursue
>>>> (if we can't forsee a return to non-ownership of land, aka full commons):
>>>> Henry George and his "single land tax". just google it, pretty easy to find
>>>> info.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Antonio
>>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 8:57 PM, ron stanford <rstan1122 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> some foucault and tangential permaculture...
>>>>>
>>>>> The analysis of power *“should not concern itself with the regulated
>>>>> and legitimate forms of power in their central locations', **but **'with
>>>>> power at its extremities, in its ultimate destinations, with those points
>>>>> where it becomes capillary...”** **“...the point where power surmounts
>>>>> the rules of right which organize and delimit it, and extends itself beyond
>>>>> them...”*
>>>>>
>>>>> *p.96 "Two Lectures." Power / Knowledge: Selected Interviews and Other
>>>>> Writings, 1972-1977. Ed.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Colin Gordon. Brighton: Harvester, 1980.*
>>>>>
>>>>> This 'de-centered' interpretation of power and its potential pragmatic
>>>>> implications, (of which I had personally been generally skeptical), is what
>>>>> I was referring to in offering 'Permaculture' as a kind of qualified,
>>>>> (obviously 'minimalizing'), 'acquittal' of Foucault. While he himself did
>>>>> not focus on pragmatist 'action' per se, my point would be that as one does
>>>>> look at Permaculture based 'action', (essntially building-rebuilding
>>>>> sustainable/resilient ecologies from the ground up), Foucault's conceptual
>>>>> formation presents an imageable overlay on which to map the
>>>>> coherence/co-adherents of that action as influence and organizational
>>>>> transformation moves back *up* the scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> The example we're all somewhat involved in would obviously be this
>>>>> broad question of transforming food production/land use
>>>>> patterns-distribution networks-consumption patterns. At one end of the scale
>>>>> there might be agribusiness-trade regimes-federal subsidies-commodities
>>>>> trading/global shipping-big box distribution/advertising-predatory
>>>>> pricing...*(collectively represented as juridicial or monarchic power
>>>>> in the liberal and marxist models)*. But it is the other end of the
>>>>> scale, at the most discrete level, *the 'capillary' level*, where
>>>>> Foucault's model suggests the power actually manifests itself, in what you
>>>>> put into your mouth on a daily basis, in the not so subtle coercion to
>>>>> 'super size', to accept the putative convenience the system offers, to 'pay
>>>>> no attention to the infrastructure behind the 'package', etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Conventional 'structuralist' thinking, (simplified into cliché, (and I
>>>>> still consider myself to be something of a structuralist...), might argue
>>>>> that one person's organic garden or individual food choices cannot really
>>>>> impact such a large scale problem; That It must be attacked closer to the
>>>>> multiple heads, at the level of trade accords and protocols, perhaps with
>>>>> direct action against the companies/the W.T.O., better mass organizing
>>>>> strategies, mass boycotts, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>> Permaculture, it seems to me,(without any necessity for discarding
>>>>> other transformational strategies), has a relatively inspiring track record
>>>>> of more or less *doing* the solution, and allowing the collective
>>>>> 'power' of the idea to accumulate discretely. And in that way, making the
>>>>> case, maybe more effectively than many louder voices, that it is actually
>>>>> possible to impact the problem from the 'ground' up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Refs.:
>>>>>
>>>>> The Two Lectures writings cited above should be attached, the relevant
>>>>> section is page 11 of the PDF, (Pg. 96 of the text.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Also attached: Chandra Kumar, “Foucault, Disciplinary Power, and the
>>>>> 'Decentering' of Political Thought, A Marxian View” 2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On the question of how 'necessary' private property might be. I'd also
>>>>> be interested if anyone could present some sort of model of organization/non
>>>>> organization and argue how it might scale, while avoiding the well known
>>>>> pitfalls of the past. Malcolm X once said: “Revolution has never been about
>>>>> a cup of coffee at a lunch counter; Its about land....”  As long as there
>>>>> are hierarchies, there generally have to be a boundaries, literal or
>>>>> otherwise, almost by default.  (typically starting with the protection of
>>>>> children...)
>>>>>
>>>>> Also might say that, at least in some measure, it is the very
>>>>> particular position of specialization that confers a certain 'comfort'
>>>>> v.a.v.  decision making. Not sure how long the list would be of people would
>>>>> feel comfortable spontaneously making the same decision. But at the same
>>>>> time, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. Hierarchies have an
>>>>> upside, (if they are transparent and accountable...couple of big if's...'--)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ron.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:43 PM, margaretha haughwout <
>>>>> xmargarethax at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> dear ron & rachel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> absolutely - break the protocols! ha. we'll have moderators every two
>>>>>> weeks who will introduce a topic, a problem, an assertion, or a solution for
>>>>>> the list. they hopefully inspire conversation and debate with the intention
>>>>>> of deepening our sense of what are the possible and ethical steps we can
>>>>>> take to move into a regenerative world... jay rosenberg and i will put
>>>>>> forward some stories in the next couple of days about the fence line at
>>>>>> hayes valley farm, about how we find heroin needles in our broccoli plants,
>>>>>> and the reach of the decisions we make about that fence.... we're looking
>>>>>> forward to your engagement!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that said spontaneous conversations around chapter fourteen topics on
>>>>>> this list are very welcome also!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in regards to your the topics you raise -
>>>>>> a) how is permaculture an "acquittal of Foucault" ? wondering what
>>>>>> texts of foucault you could quote or refer us to here.
>>>>>> b) i want to challenge the thinking that there must be land ownership.
>>>>>> enclosure <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure> seems to me to be
>>>>>> one of the most damaging movements in the western world. what if we
>>>>>> unraveled the idea of property. how could we begin to do this? perhaps to
>>>>>> show how much more fun it is to share land, to close loops in empty lots,
>>>>>> share yields, invite folks into your backyard, etc. slow and steady
>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>> c) permaculture, being in part the reinvigoration of ecological
>>>>>> systems through feedback and "closing loops" is also geared toward making
>>>>>> food forests, flourishing systems that also produce yields. the idea is that
>>>>>> these food forests, as opposed to current "top down" agricultural practices,
>>>>>> require very little inputs. in turn the yield also is more diverse and more
>>>>>> abundant (compare an acre of food forest to an acre of corn...).  this is to
>>>>>> say yes, i think we can still have dentists. but the impetus becomes not
>>>>>> necessarily one of survival (must have a job to survive) but one of real
>>>>>> curiosity and desire to contribute to community, health, etc. one of the
>>>>>> questions becomes: if you have food, community and shelter, what do you want
>>>>>> to do for your community, rather than what do you have to do. i am hesitant
>>>>>> to come up with state, top down rules and laws to make examples of how this
>>>>>> is possible - maybe someone can step in here to fill in some of the blanks.
>>>>>> i'd love to hear an anarchist perspective on how people self organize...
>>>>>> because it is an issue of self organization. i don't see how self
>>>>>> organization is possible if we put a price on land, and people own it. in
>>>>>> one scenario we act in service to land and in another we act in service to
>>>>>> the wealthy, the dollar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i can speak a little to self organization (bottom up models) through
>>>>>> what i've seen at hayes valley farm in this regard. i've seen people, myself
>>>>>> included, first come on the farm and say "look i have this specialty that is
>>>>>> of value!" "you need me because of my specialty!" what i've noticed over
>>>>>> time is that, while people still have specializations, we all also find
>>>>>> great satisfaction from dedicating at least part of our time to the needs of
>>>>>> the moment, and the more mundane needs of the farm. it's an interesting
>>>>>> transition to note: the dominant culture tells us we are not valuable to
>>>>>> others unless we have a specialty, but on the farm, where the orientation is
>>>>>> more cooperative, we are valued not just for a specialty we may have, but
>>>>>> also for our responsiveness to the needs of the moment, for our ability to
>>>>>> work together, do at least some mundane tasks, etc. etc. most of my time
>>>>>> these days in spent in the greenhouse and in research, but the other day i
>>>>>> walked by the front gate and noticed it needed some attention, so i planted
>>>>>> some trees, comfrey and clover. i think when the orientation is toward self
>>>>>> organization, we have a more nuanced responsiveness that allows for
>>>>>> specialization (into dentistry, for example) but also that allows for deep
>>>>>> pleasure in responding to the needs of nature, self, and community...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> much more can be said here. in my opinion these questions dive to the
>>>>>> heart of how we get from here to there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my friend aimee reminded me of permaculture principle #4 yesterday: "accept
>>>>>> feedback and apply self regulation<http://permacultureprinciples.com/principle_4.php>
>>>>>> "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all the best,
>>>>>> /m
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:31 AM, ron stanford <rstan1122 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> realized that might have sounded like Shakespeare championed Jay, the
>>>>>>> bastard...not quite was i was thinking, although Shakespeare  no doubt would
>>>>>>> have loved jay, i don't think he's actually a bastard, either literally or
>>>>>>> figuratively...the long lost thought there was more an off-handed defense of
>>>>>>> 'non-pedigree' thinking...(really...(sic...))...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Rachel A. Buddeberg <rachel at rabe.org
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not quite sure what protocols you might have breeched...  I found
>>>>>>>> your question intriguing because I've wondered about that myself.  It seems
>>>>>>>> that not everyone might become a successful farmer... Given our knowledge of
>>>>>>>> where markets can lead - at least the unregulated kinds - maybe exchange
>>>>>>>> might be better.  Historically, when buyer and seller haggled directly,
>>>>>>>> prices tended to be fairer than now when most of the money I pay for
>>>>>>>> athletic shoes (for example) goes into the pockets of the CEO of [fill in
>>>>>>>> your least favorite shoe company].  I can't haggle - and neither can the
>>>>>>>> person ask for higher wages.   Of course, there remain other
>>>>>>>> power-differentials to watch out for in 1-on-1 markets.  I am sure that the
>>>>>>>> craftsperson didn't feel as comfortable setting a price for a
>>>>>>>> nobleperson...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rachel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 12:22 AM, ron stanford wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not quite sure how the idea exchange here is supposed to work, but
>>>>>>>> just diving in: (as a relative neophyte), marvelously impressed by the
>>>>>>>> gravity of fukuoka, the look of his 'farm', the food forest concept, seed
>>>>>>>> balls, etc.  My first question v.a.v. discussion would be the macro level
>>>>>>>> implications of.traditional property rights and markets/ exchange of
>>>>>>>> 'surplus'.  Recognizing that permaculture, (seems to me), is something,
>>>>>>>> (literally), of a ground up' concept, (the best e.g. acquittal of Foucault
>>>>>>>> i've personally encountered...), i wonder about the convergence of
>>>>>>>> enlightened 'ground up' food production and the perhaps not so comfortable
>>>>>>>> atrophy of top down-large scale production/distribution models.
>>>>>>>> In the new model, if one is not specifically a grower, or one in
>>>>>>>> possession of land, (maybe a dedicated painter/writer/old school doctor,
>>>>>>>> etc.), is there the comfortable possibility of making one's 'specialized'
>>>>>>>> way, without being a 'farmer' oneself, (and not relying on charity, strictly
>>>>>>>> speaking...), that is, an exchange, a market, where services/goods/produce
>>>>>>>> can be priced?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have no doubt breeched any number of protocols, but...testing,
>>>>>>>> testing...is this thing on...? ...'--)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ron.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Jay <protojay at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Website: onestrawrevolution.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chapter 14 discussion invite
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ♫ Spread the word, please help us support the farm on Kickstarter!
>>>>>> http://bit.ly/hvf-kickstarter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lead Researcher, Hayes Valley Farm
>>>>>> http://www.hayesvalleyfarm.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lecturer, Film and Digital Media
>>>>>> University of California Santa Cruz
>>>>>> Communications 151
>>>>>>
>>>>>> chapter fourteen<http://lists.beforebefore.net/listinfo.cgi/chapter_fourteen-beforebefore.net>
>>>>>> http://www.beforebefore.net/
>>>>>> http://www.bitterpattern.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am best contacted by email:
>>>>>> xmargarethax at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> sf urban ag alliance @ sfuaa.org
>>>> movie and blog @ insearchofgoodfood.org
>>>> community farm @ www.alemanyfarm.org
>>>> permaculty @ www.permaculture-sf.org
>>>> newspaper @
>>>> http://soex.org/alternativeexposure/index.php/antonio-roman-alcala/
>>>> personal music @ www.myspace.com/ammra
>>>> people people @www.myspace.com/mercurialbombastictenacity
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ♫ Spread the word, please help us support the farm on Kickstarter!
>>> http://bit.ly/hvf-kickstarter
>>>
>>> Lead Researcher, Hayes Valley Farm
>>> http://www.hayesvalleyfarm.com/
>>>
>>> Lecturer, Film and Digital Media
>>> University of California Santa Cruz
>>> Communications 151
>>>
>>> chapter fourteen<http://lists.beforebefore.net/listinfo.cgi/chapter_fourteen-beforebefore.net>
>>> http://www.beforebefore.net/
>>> http://www.bitterpattern.net/
>>>
>>> I am best contacted by email:
>>> xmargarethax at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> sf urban ag alliance @ sfuaa.org
>> movie and blog @ insearchofgoodfood.org
>> community farm @ www.alemanyfarm.org
>> permaculty @ www.permaculture-sf.org
>> newspaper @
>> http://soex.org/alternativeexposure/index.php/antonio-roman-alcala/
>> personal music @ www.myspace.com/ammra
>> people people @www.myspace.com/mercurialbombastictenacity
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> chapter_fourteen-beforebefore.net mailing list
>> chapter_fourteen-beforebefore.net at lists.beforebefore.net
>>
>> http://lists.beforebefore.net/listinfo.cgi/chapter_fourteen-beforebefore.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ♫ Spread the word, please help us support the farm on Kickstarter!
> http://bit.ly/hvf-kickstarter
>
> Lead Researcher, Hayes Valley Farm
> http://www.hayesvalleyfarm.com/
>
> Lecturer, Film and Digital Media
> University of California Santa Cruz
> Communications 151
>
> chapter fourteen<http://lists.beforebefore.net/listinfo.cgi/chapter_fourteen-beforebefore.net>
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